Curse

91ntucker · Feb 16, 2010, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Purpose: This guide is intended to aid players with the creation of their own Codex Build.

Codex has slipped into a coma like state. One large reason for this is that most players interested in playing codex have taken one look at the skills that are available and become lost.

Planning Your Codex Build:

1. Analyze and Predict the obvious meta:
Before you decide on the build you want to create you will need an idea of what kinds of builds other people are playing. Most players will commit to one style of play.

2. Find a build to suit your style:
Quickly browse through each class to get an idea of what builds are available.
While doing this start to pick out roles and jobs that each class would be accomplishing and constantly compare the virtues of the classes against each other.

For example: Foul Feast on the Necro versus "Its Just a Flesh-Wound!" on paragon. With Necro you have the potential for defensive hexes and skills, while on the paragon you would have higher damage potential. The choice between the two would largely depend on how your team plans on winning the match.

3. Don't Fight the Meta, bend with it:
Often if the new skill set has been out for a while a powerful meta will have already been established. In this case you can either modify or spec it against other teams, or simply wait a couple hours for it to turn over.

Hope this guide helped somebody, Good luck.

NeHoMaR · Feb 16, 2010, 11:18 PM // 23:18

My problem with Codex Arena is the need to make an organized team to enter, that's annoying; I think is plenty enough HA and GvG for that; CA should be random or allow heroes. The idea of limiting skills is perfect, I love it, but making it another elitist place was wrong.

So, your tips are good, but what a casual player like myself will do with that? remember I first need to make/enter a team, that's the problem; I just instead go to RA, or HA with some lame meta build (to quickly enter a team) I don't have all day for this.

Corporeal Ghost · Feb 16, 2010, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Just play more damage. Seriously. I can't tell you how many teams we roll over with no backline because they have zero killing power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

CA should be random or allow heroes.

It's really astounding how many people are arguing for this. It's getting hard to ignore. A random codex format would be completely worthless. The individual bars are often so weak that they do very little in the absence of a full team build. For example, we have played damage/utility-light paragons JUST for Flesh Wound. If you put that Flesh Wound guy into a random build (particularly one that doesn't have two heavy DPS guys to exploit it), you're just going to draw in 8 minutes. Because skills are such a limited commodity, synergy is more important than ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

My problem with Codex Arena is the need to make an organized team to enter, that's annoying; I think is plenty enough HA and GvG for that(...)The idea of limiting skills is perfect, I love it, but making it another elitist place was wrong.

My problem with Guild Wars is the need of so many people to kill off legitimate formats by getting rid of the organized team requirement. I think is plenty enough RA and AB for that...The idea of Guild Wars is perfect, I love it, but catering to people who can't form teams is wrong.

Trinity Fire Angel · Feb 17, 2010, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Seeing that this format replaced Hero Battles (seeing that nearly all the HB people were crying out for sealed deck) and replaced TA and organised team meta. Why don;t we merge the two and allow Hero;s in this arena? It will blossom for people who love to scrim with heros and allow people to create builds that do not require people and will obviously still have the human aspect where people can adapt and play different builds.

Those people with Hero battle uber micro will be good and the organised guild and TA teams with vent will also be great.

please please please. that and mAT's.

shadows of hob · Feb 17, 2010, 12:23 AM // 00:23

The problem is that there are better options for organized teamplay, especially HA. For HA, you just get some guildies/ally/pug/friends, tell them to play a certain build they have played many times before and everybody is ready to go in about 2 minutes.

For CA, you first need 3 other people that even want to play the format, then you have to decide what skills and builds are availeble today, then you have to get some synergy between all the builds, then you have to wait till you finally get a game and then you get a few wins with no real reward or get stomped by some guild that understood the currect meta a little bit better than you did.

NeHoMaR · Feb 17, 2010, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

The individual bars are often so weak that they do very little in the absence of a full team build.

Heroes. They removed heroes completely of that place. Why they did it? Imbalance? Wasn't imbalance fixed by limiting skills? So, why are heroes removed? There are no meta now to exploit, bore and annoy people. They could just leave HB exactly as it was, but with limited skills (as Codex is), and removing shrines (not needed anymore because no more holding crap) So people will just HAVE FUN there, fast and furious, good for serious players and casual players too.

greep · Feb 17, 2010, 09:33 PM // 21:33

What does mATs, HA, or heroes have to do with building codex builds -.-

Anyways, I think there's some specific advice that also helps. E.g.

-Certain professions that day will be completely dead (almost always ele, and usually paragon). It's best not to go with a mindset of "I'll play x class today and make a build with it."

-Secondary professions make a huge difference, particularly for defense, self healing, or emanagement. Frequently monks will have no decent self heal, and will need a secondary mostly for this. On days with a good elemental elite, eles will rely mostly on their secondary for support skills.

-Briefly look at the more powerful hexes/hexremoval, cond/con removal to see if they're there. If there's no blind or decent curses, melee's gonna have a field day.

Corporeal Ghost · Feb 18, 2010, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

Heroes.

No. They're finally been (correctly) removed from PvP. Do not reintroduce them. We don't want to play against AI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greep

What does mATs, HA, or heroes have to do with building codex builds -.-

Quite a bit. mATs would generate more interest in codex and might get it to a critical mass such that theorycrafting codex builds had a purpose--playing codex--rather than just idle amusement with no end-goal. Not to mention I would play completely different builds in a mAT than I do in regular play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by green

Certain professions that day will be completely dead (almost always ele, and usually paragon). It's best not to go with a mindset of "I'll play x class today and make a build with it."

Correct in general. I find that paragons are almost always playable, but frequently not the best choice. Your mentality makes it really hard to pug paragons--we only have three players--despite paragons being ideally suited to being the pugbot. They are easy to play and have solid DPS. On the days that they're over-the-top good and everyone should have one--the days that you can actually pug one--the correct bar is almost never puggable as it's full of Brace Yourself and such.

Eles are a little different. They very frequently have playable bars with crappy energy and a ton of utility. This is pretty perfect for the guys I play with since we tend to output a lot of damage on our non-backline guys. If you can play a pressure-type build, utility eles are awesome, even if their energy won't last. If you can't, you should probably avoid eles without energy.

Necros and Rangers are the two classes I find have unplayable bars the majority of the time. The assassin is also a crapshoot, but their bars are really easy to evaluate. Basically you need either Death Blossom, Twisting Fangs, or Shattering Assault. There are corner cases in which other bars are viable, but they're rare (and much harder to play).

Quote:

Originally Posted by greep

-Briefly look at the more powerful hexes/hexremoval, cond/con removal to see if they're there. If there's no blind or decent curses, melee's gonna have a field day.

Don't stop at hexes and conditions. We also assess interrupts, vulnerability of common builds to interrupts--IE, our dom trumps their water ele--stances, random dervish trash (Armor of Sanctity, Vow of Piety, Shield of Force, etc etc), resto "support", and spear attacks--which can realistically be slotted on any caster.

Seems like a lot, but basically just don't run the build that everyone counters by default. If we see Armor of Sanctity, we probably aren't running heavy melee without good condition removal.

And lastly, something that very few people grasp, if the monk bar is unplayably bad, don't play it. Resto rits are frequently better than monks. Sometimes they're both awful and you're better off running a bunch of blinds, snares, and self-heals on 4 offensive characters.

NeHoMaR · Feb 18, 2010, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

We don't want to play against AI.

I want. I like that. So, "We" is too much to say.

Revelations · Feb 18, 2010, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

And lastly, something that very few people grasp, if the monk bar is unplayably bad, don't play it. Resto rits are frequently better than monks. Sometimes they're both awful and you're better off running a bunch of blinds, snares, and self-heals on 4 offensive characters.

Braveway is so much stronger than people give it credit for.

greep · Feb 18, 2010, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

And lastly, something that very few people grasp, if the monk bar is unplayably bad, don't play it. Resto rits are frequently better than monks. Sometimes they're both awful and you're better off running a bunch of blinds, snares, and self-heals on 4 offensive characters.

Yeah this drives people nuts, that sometimes no team healer is the best way to go.

What irks ME is that frequently the opposite occurs. Neither enough pressure or spike exist to kill the enemy's team. Then the more experienced players play a healer and heavy support char and they never, ever lose. Against experienced players they draw.

The should add VoD to Codex XD. 90% of days it's not needed, but on days of insane healing, codex is utterly destroyed without some sort of speedup.

urania · Feb 18, 2010, 09:08 AM // 09:08

but for braveway you actually need >good< players.

Corporeal Ghost · Feb 18, 2010, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

but for braveway you actually need >good< players.

Lies. We run it all the time with three mediocre players and one pug.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

I want. I like that. So, "We" is too much to say.

We. Everyone I enjoy playing with. Everyone I enjoy playing against. Everyone who can reasonably win against me. Basically anyone who does not PvE more often than actually playing the game. So yes, definitely "we". Heroes subtract tactical depth. Man up and find a pug if you don't have a big enough friendlist. If we can run them monkless, you can run them in defenseball.

Heroes were a waste of developer time and resources. Not to mention they actually subtract tactical depth from the game they're in. We the people who do not enjoy PvE are quite satisfied with heroes being completely ousted from our game. There are so many things that should have been a higher priority than heroes that their very existence is offensive.

edit: bad at quote

IMMORTAlMITCH · Feb 18, 2010, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

I want. I like that. So, "We" is too much to say.

Then go play PvE.

Riverside is that way -->

urania · Feb 18, 2010, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

Lies. We run it all the time with three mediocre players and one pug.

i refuse to drop standards.

drkn · Feb 18, 2010, 10:44 PM // 22:44

heroes' deletion from general pvp was a good idea. it's pvp after all, player versus player. the deletion of hero battles is justified by RR spread. if there was no RR ever (or anything similar), there would be no problem.
i just don't get why they banned heroes from zaishen battle // zaishen elite. it's still pve - restricted to pvp skills, but you fight against the ai.

but back on topic. i'd like to join codex from time to time - i actually like building up new builds all the time. the only problem is that i don't have people to play with who would share my interest. randomness or allowing heroes - up to some point, not 1 players + 3 heroes though - would encourage more people to play. i'll try to pug in codex soon though, we'll see how it works.

*lemming* · Feb 19, 2010, 12:16 AM // 00:16

This isn't a discussion thread for the merit of heroes in PvP. Keep it on-topic. ^.^

Sad Hippo · Feb 19, 2010, 01:22 AM // 01:22

guide to CA: Use ebon dust aura or blinding surge every time they're available. Whenever losing to a team, try to copy their build.

Corporeal Ghost · Feb 19, 2010, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

but back on topic. i'd like to join codex from time to time - i actually like building up new builds all the time. the only problem is that i don't have people to play with who would share my interest.

There are at least twenty or thirty people on this forum who have said exactly this. Seems like you guys should form up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sad Hippo

guide to CA: Use ebon dust aura or blinding surge every time they're available. Whenever losing to a team, try to copy their build.

EDA was killed over a month ago. Somewhat humorously, there were several people trying to run it at least a week after its death, simply because they couldn't run anything else.

Blinding Surge is rarely a problem. If it's uncounterable, we're not playing physicals (or just not playing). On the other hand, Blinding Surge will get you all kinds of wins against people who don't know how to play against Blinding Surge.

Revelations · Feb 19, 2010, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by greep

Yeah this drives people nuts, that sometimes no team healer is the best way to go.

What irks ME is that frequently the opposite occurs. Neither enough pressure or spike exist to kill the enemy's team. Then the more experienced players play a healer and heavy support char and they never, ever lose. Against experienced players they draw.

The should add VoD to Codex XD. 90% of days it's not needed, but on days of insane healing, codex is utterly destroyed without some sort of speedup.

Defenseways are pretty gay to play against, but the solution isn't a VoD effect. In case you're oblivious to some of the reasons VoD was changed/removed, one large factor was that it allowed such defense heavy teams to finally start scoring kills with the added damage buff.

They're packing enough defense that your backline (which has probably been under mediocre mostly non-threatening pressure most of the match) will collapse much faster than theirs (which is probably enjoying a full blue bar about now) given the advent of a VoD-like effect.